Water In Lugaru 2

[mphasis]

I have to say, I almost see 3 as a step backwards.
It would break combat, and whilst underwater fighting may sound cool, it sounds to me like it would play lame.
All for two, because it actually adds to the gameplay, which should always be a developer's number one concern.
That's what set Lugaru apart, it had a focus on good gameplay above all else, unlike many modern computer games.

[Zantalos]

Level 3 full fledged water support is definitely a step forward, it would just take a lot longer to implement.

[mphasis]

Tell me, what's better in level 3?
I can't really think of anything important.
When you disagree with people, it's really nice to hear why :p.

[Zantalos]

I have to say, I almost see 3 as a step backwards.
It would break combat, and whilst underwater fighting may sound cool, it sounds to me like it would play lame.
All for two, because it actually adds to the gameplay, which should always be a developer's number one concern.
That's what set Lugaru apart, it had a focus on good gameplay above all else, unlike many modern computer games.

Haha okay, well firstly it would not break combat. Broken underwater fighting is not a representation of full fledged water support, that is level 2 support with just more water to fight in. Level 3 would be like fighting an enemy at the side of a lake, beating him up and then throwing him into the water and drowning him. Or if you were being tracked by wolves you could dive into the river, loose their scent and then reappear way down stream and get away. Also, Jeff talked about creating flow maps so if you were to jump into some rapids you would get violently pulled downstream by the current and it would look really awesome as it's all physics based and Turner would have a real fun time trying not to drown.

Now level 2 support does not really add to the gameplay like level 3 does, it just makes the world more immersive to the player, like what shadows do. It's just having puddles or shallow creeks that you would be able to run through and make splashes in. Makes the game look really pretty though and I'm sure it would look really awesome to fight in, even if it's just 2 inches of water, anyone seen The Protector?

That fight was bad ass.

[mphasis]

I get it now.
My level 2 IS your level 3(Except without swimming animations).
I was talking about streams that come up to waist height, and rather than having a swimming animation, you could just crouch underwater to disappear underneath it.
People drown can drown in centimetres of water sadly enough, especially if they sustain head trauma(I didn't realise that until after I did first-aid) so waist height is easily enough to knock someone down and stand on their head until they drown.
You could be affected by the current too, you would be faster when running with the stream, and slower when moving against it.
I felt my way was better as it requires the least work for the most cool gameplay.

I've actually already said all this and more on page two.
What your referring to is Jeff's level 2, which isn't mine as I didn't like the idea of swimming animations.
Sorry to be confusing .

[Ltp0wer]

Tell me, what's better in level 3?
I can't really think of anything important.
When you disagree with people, it's really nice to hear why :p.

Adding level 3 support gives a shitload more options to modders, whether or not large bodies of water are even in use in the main campaign. It also adds a hell of a lot more immersion when the player can interact with water on a more realistic level. Overall, it can make the combat/maps seem less repetative if you can introduce different elements of motion (swimming).

I don't see why anyone would think that level 3 isn't an important improvement from level 2. Sure, I'd be content with level 2, but level 3 would add so much more to the game, that I think it is worth it to postpone the release a month more.

Edit:

I get it now.
My level 2 IS your level 3(Except without swimming animations).
I was talking about streams that come up to waist height, and rather than having a swimming animation, you could just crouch underwater to disappear underneath it.
People drown can drown in centimetres of water sadly enough, especially if they sustain head trauma(I didn't realise that until after I did first-aid) so waist height is easily enough to knock someone down and stand on their head until they drown.
You could be affected by the current too, you would be faster when running with the stream, and slower when moving against it.
I felt my way was better as it requires the least work for the most cool gameplay.

I've actually already said all this and more on page two.
What your referring to is Jeff's level 2, which isn't mine as I didn't like the idea of swimming animations.
Sorry to be confusing .

Ahh, your post was a tiny bit before mine.
And by the way, you should have been talking about jeffs level 2, that is what we were all referring to.

[mphasis]

Don't you just hate when that happens?
That protector scene link is a must see for anyone who has read or posted on this topic btw.

[Ltp0wer]

Don't you just hate when that happens?
That protector scene link is a must see for anyone who has read or posted on this topic btw.

Yes, it was very awesome. Makes me want to see the movie.

[ChazFox]

Well I'm sure I've established by now what kind of water-related feature I'd like to see in OG (particularly in the swamp areas). Mud (and quicksand) of course. XD I know that doesn't have a lot to do with water (since it'd be scripted differently), but it'd still be cool. Traversing knee-depth mud would be more difficult than knee-depth water, pools of quicksand might be treacherous to cross (Not just because of going under, which is the usual hollywood thing, but also because of becoming stuck (or slowed down at least) and becoming an easy target for enemies), and so on. :3

[Vrav]

I just hope you guys realize how fun it is to splash around in puddles. Jumping in puddles is a memorable childhood activity! As is getting muddy. It's just fun to get dirty. As such, I fully encourage the game to at least possess jumping in puddles and tumbling around getting you all matted and filthy. It's just more epic to come out a fight covered in blood and grime; since we're dealing with anthropomorphic animals, having fur scruffed and missing from the fight, etcetera.

[Glabbit]

I will even find it absolutely awesome of only level 1 makes it in. Go Wolfire!

[VerdantPlanes]

One thing that would be nice about large areas of water is they would make the terrain more varied.

Also, imagine you're being chased by some enemies. You come to a cliff that rises 50 feet or so above the ground. Instead of stopping you dive over the edge and splash into a deep lake below the cliff, leaving your pursuers staring down from the cliff.

Still, no water, no worries, Overgrowth will still be amazing.

[Glabbit]

Indeed.

Also, as VerdantPlanes here brought my attention to in the 'iceland' thread, Ice is a lot easier to make than water. So does there seem to be a great chance to see ice in the snow levels?

In fact, in L1, the square rock block could pass for ice if placed concealed in the ground, with the plane showing but not the edges...

Hm...

[marmorek]

Indeed.

Also, as VerdantPlanes here brought my attention to in the 'iceland' thread, Ice is a lot easier to make than water. So does there seem to be a great chance to see ice in the snow levels?

In fact, in L1, the square rock block could pass for ice if placed concealed in the ground, with the plane showing but not the edges...

Hm...

All you'd need would be a bit of reflection and much less friction. Not too hard to do (I think).

[vvi77iam]

i was thinking thin ice in some areas so while ur fighting an opponent its possible for one of u to fall in, or u could smash the ground beneath some one! i was also thinking about boats. little boats with sails or paddles and with boats comes destinations that can only be reached by crossing water. it would be cool if for multiplayer, to keep us playing the game over and over, there would be monthly updates or something that like hawaii islands just keep sprouting up one after another. and on these islands is something and every ones racing on different kinds of boats and if not islands the point of a boat could be to get from one side of the island to another. like the cat race will have these swift chinese looking boats with crazy sails and wolfs or other large predators would have ships like barbarians that need multiple crew members to paddle. and for the poor players they can have rafts that u would have to be constantly moving around on and paddling so as not to be taken by the current. and of course with these ships we have battles but no cannons. just jumping from our lame rafts onto a large rat type race sail boat and kill all on it and take over. also when speaking of lvl 3 water aspects it would be cool for when u get farther and father from the main land the water gets choppier and choppier and thunder in-till u end up on a medium sized sail boat with all ur friends in multiplayer in THE PERFECT STORM and ur now going straight up a tsunami thats just about to barrel on u guys. also waves would be cool to have on shorelines and to run at them and get knocked down. i truly love the adventure aspect of a game. going and exploring. river rafting would also be just fantastic! ppl throwing knives as u try to traverse lvl 5 white waters. if u do add water. adding boats would also be pretty neat.

but this is all to advanced for david n crew, *stretches* yep the wolfire team could never pull off such a fantasmerific project, its all just to much for em so sorry for even asking ill just go look for some other game development group that can handle such a diaper change... (wink wink)

i believe in u wolfire. and ill be perfectly content with lvl 2 water aspects expect when u do make the shoreline stuff with lvl 1 where its just a cliff u can fall off of, thats totally cool and i love that idea but i also love the beach more than any other environment so u could have lvl 2 oceans like something from spirited away. really shallow water ocean that u just walk forever and eventually faint from walking to far instead of running into an invisible wall. that would just be really neat and highly imaginative. in the world of lugaru it doesn't have be like earth. and if u do end-up having no shoreline ill just have to go looking for that hidden oasis towards the middle of the western dessert where the small body of lake like water is shallow do to evaporation and perception and i will build my square dessert hut out there instead of on some romantic cove kept hidden by a half circle of rocks that opens up to an endless ocean.